For starters, building a real estate portfolio is the first step in establishing yourself and becoming reputable in this industry. But doing that alone is quite difficult, if not impossible. Sharing his most important tips in real estate success with Dale Corpus is Vince Iacobelli of eXp Realty. Together, they emphasize the importance of building an effective team complete with trusted property managers, realtors, and lenders. They explain why real estate depends hugely on a team sport and how vast connections can be utilized here on incredible levels. Vince also dives deep into navigating the price-to-rent ratio, the best strategies for out-of-state investing, and why it is sometimes better to hold on to a property than sell it.
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Building Your Real Estate Portfolio From Scratch With Vince Iacobelli
This is the third episode of the show. My guest is my colleague and friend, Vince Iacobelli, who’s both a realtor and investor based in the Columbus, Ohio market. Here’s more about him. After starting off in real estate as a property manager, Vince has thrived in the real estate investing world by helping others while he builds his own business and portfolio. As an agent, he helps new investors grow their investment portfolios and build successful teams out of state. Vince has started a small real estate investment company called Strive Capital that focuses on creating equity and cashflow through buy and hold investments on single-family and small multifamily properties. I’m so stoked that Vince is on this episode as he brings a wealth of knowledge to both new and experienced real estate investors in trying to build their real estate portfolios. I too started off with real estate investing with out-of-state buy and hold rental. What Vince focuses on is a good entry point for anyone considering the idea of real estate investing. That being said, welcome, Vince. Thanks for your time. How are you doing?
Dale, I’m doing great. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to get on the show and talk about real estate. I know this is pretty much all we do.
We can talk about this stuff all day long. To give the audience more background, is there anything else that you want to share about yourself that I didn’t cover in the intro?
I’m also a real estate agent with eXp Realty. This is all a development. I chose you as my sponsor broker because I thought that we were very like-minded when it came to investing. You are a little more experienced than me. We come from different worlds. At the end of the day, we’re in different markets and there are different strategies that fit best for the markets that we’re in. It helps give a unique perspective.
It’s interesting that both of us are realtors and investors. For yourself, how did you get involved in real estate? Were you an investor or an agent first? Can you tell the audience about that?
That’s the right place to start because a lot of people that are reading this are going to be newer. That’s fine. That’s normal. Most people realize that to get started in real estate, there has to be a time when you weren’t an investor and you didn’t have any properties. I started out like everyone else. I’m young. I’m 24 years old. I was a property manager to start off. I originally got my real estate license while I was still in college. I did not go to school for real estate. I wanted to get my degree in Economics and I had no idea what to do but my mom had always flipped houses when we were younger. We did live-in flips. We moved once or twice every single year throughout high school. She was the one that first gave me the bug.
I didn’t know that I wanted to be on the investment side. It was more, so I had no idea what I wanted to do as many Business Majors in college did. I started working at a property management company which gave me a baptism by fire into real estate investing because I signed on as an agent and a property manager, which gave me 150 clients to start from the first day as I manage their properties. Over time, I got to learn how to analyze deals through actual properties that were under management. The coolest thing about that was that I got to see behind the curtain the successful investors and the not-so-successful investors. We get a deal with them and figure out why some were successful and why others weren’t successful. That gave me a good foundation to at least get started in real estate investing.Being a real estate investor means becoming a nonstop problem-solver. You move from one problem to the next, and that’s how you learn. Click To Tweet
I love the fact that you got into real estate investing early. For your first investment, tell me about that. What was that like for yourself?
I don’t think that it was as big of a deal as maybe some other people are taking their first steps because we live in this world of real estate. Our day jobs are agents. Transacting real estate is another day in life. It’s an easy process. I got involved with investing in real estate by finding a partner. My partner was one of my original clients. He took a chance on me when I was very young. He has been a mentor to me. He’s a little older. He’s 44. He comes from the world of commercial real estate experience. My first foray into real estate investing was starting a partnership with him. We didn’t just buy one property. We bought four properties at once. They were all fix-and-flip and rehabs. We’re big onto value-add strategies. There were some growing pains to put it nicely as we figured out our contractors and systems. We had to fire some contractors and had some projects go sideways but that’s what real estate investing is. You’re a nonstop problem-solver. You move from one problem to the next and that’s how you learn.
What types of properties were they? Were they single-family or multifamily?
We did single-family and multifamily. It’s a good mix. This is a good point to talk about the market in general. In Columbus, Ohio and I would imagine this is similar for any other markets in the United States, you have to look at the housing supply and the inventory on markets. There are obviously going to be more single-families than small multifamilies. The single-families usually are a lot easier to find deals on because there are so many investors fighting over the same small multifamily properties and there’s maybe 5% of the inventory compared to single-families. It’s not just off-market investors and wholesalers. You have a lot of retail buyers that have the cashflow mindset coming from other more expensive markets where multifamilies are the only properties that you can make cashflow. We found that in Columbus, Ohio, we have a good price-to-rent ratio on single-families. We’ve completely changed our model now. We’re focusing on doing the single-families because we can create a lot more equity and have good cashflow with a lot less competition.
Can you elaborate the price-to-rent ratio for those that don’t know what that means?
This is probably a common term. A lot of people have heard of the 1% or 2% rule, especially if you’ve listened to BiggerPockets. They’ve probably drilled this in your head 100,000 times. The price-to-rent ratio is saying that if we have a property that is valued at $100,000 and we’re renting it out for $1,000 a month. We would be at 1% of the price-to-rent ratio for that property. In our market in Columbus, generally, we like to stay above 1.25% to 1.5%. Years ago, we wouldn’t send out deals if they were under 1.85%. We were able to get the 2% rule which is crazy. I would love to have a deal these days but the market has gone up in value so much. Rents have gone up in values as well. They are starting to outpace the values of the properties.
Besides the price-to-rent ratio, why else invest in Columbus? What’s the draw? Who are the bigger employers over there? Where does everybody work?
This is the most common question that we get because I mainly work with out-of-state investors for more expensive markets. Everyone is like, “Columbus, Ohio? Is that North or South? What’s going on over there?” It’s not just all cornfields. Specifically, in Columbus, Ohio, we have big population drivers. We have The Ohio State University, my alma mater. The Ohio State University has a ton of undergrads that are graduating with good degrees, going into high-paying jobs and staying in the city. I believe we have about 5,000 new people per month coming into the city, which is good for the Midwest. It’s a lot better than Cleveland and Cincinnati, which are two other big cities in Ohio.
As far as our leading industries, it’s the same as a lot of other places. We have finance being probably our leading industry alongside with insurance. We have the Nationwide Headquarters in Columbus, as well as Root Car Insurance and a couple of others. Healthcare is the number one employer in all of Ohio. We’ve based a lot of our investment strategies in the locations we invest on based off of the development of where some of these larger businesses are going. It’s bringing in so many young people with high-paying jobs that will not settle for the quality of the houses in the area. It’s forcing investors to improve the area and genuinely bring up the condition of the neighborhoods that were around.
What can someone expect as a brand-new investor if they wanted to buy a detached single-family home? Let’s say it was a 3-bedroom and 2-bathroom. What would that price point look like?
The price point that I would recommend and this may be jumping the gun because investing depends on a couple of things. One is, “How much money do you have?” Two is, “What are you trying to do with that money? Are you a newer investor? Are you looking to seriously grow your capital? Are you looking at real estate as a store of value so you could have passive income?” Those two answers are going to completely change your investment strategy. The third one which I always tell my clients is probably the most important is, “How much time do you have to devote to real estate?” Everyone gets into real estate investing for passive income and that’s great. There are ways to make it passive but in order to be a truly successful investor, you’re going to have to devote time to it. You’re going to have to properly build out your teams and systems in order to make it passive. Don’t think that you’re just going to get involved and it’s like buying a stock. You’ll check back in two years. If you want to be successful, I genuinely recommend learning about it.
To go back to your question, what I would recommend for someone coming into our market and they want to buy a single-family property that beats the 1% rule and is fairly passive and turnkey by that? Turnkey has a negative connotation to it a lot of the time but that doesn’t need significant renovations. You can get financing with conventional financing. I would recommend looking for a single-family property in the $130,000 to $150,000 range. That could be a 3-bedroom or a 4-bedroom. The expected rents on those are going to be about $1,200 to $1,300 depending on the condition for the 3-bed, 1-bath. If you can get a 4-bed, 2-bath or a 4-bed, 1-bath, we’re getting up to $1,600 a month in income just off of the rental, which is phenomenal. That equates to probably $400 a month cashflow for the three ones and about $600 to $700 a month for the four twos after you take away PITI, capital expenditures, reserves, property management, taxes and all the fun stuff.
You’ve talked about the team. Besides having an investment property realtor on the team, what other types of players on this team should someone be looking out for?
This is probably the most important part. This is something that I help my clients with because I’m also an investor myself and I have a rock star team. Building your team is the most important thing that you have to do. When you’re coming out to a new market, I like to set everyone up with multiple property managers to interview. They are very crucial. That is who’s going to be operating your assets. That’s important. Besides that, you need a good realtor who knows what an investment property is. I don’t want to talk down to my realtors but there are a lot of retail realtors that have no idea what a cash-on-cash return is. They don’t even know how to spell cap rate. They may just be trying to throw you in the first property that they see that you can get approved for.People are willing to pay more for a higher quality product. Click To Tweet
The third one is your lenders. This one is interesting because as an investor and as you continue your investing career, you’re going to get access to different kinds of capital. When you first start out, like the example we just talked about for the single-families, you can 100% finance those with conventional financing. Because of the purchase price being so low in our market, it’s easy. Your mortgage payment on a house like that is going to be $550 to $600 a month. It’s not going to affect your debt-to-income. You could probably buy 2, 3 or 4 of those with a decent salary.
As you continue to invest and build your track record and you can show this to lenders, you’re going to get access to better financing. Whether that be portfolio financing for refinances, which is something we’re a bit very large on or using hard money lenders to help fund acquisitions. They could help fund your rehabs if you need them to. The last one is the pinnacle of real estate investing when I think that you can start to scale. That is bringing in private lenders. That is private equity. That is what can help you grow your business. That is where we are for my real estate investing company. We’re starting to show some phenomenal returns to our private equity lenders just because they allow us to move so quickly.
How quick is quick?
That depends on what you’re doing. We probably go on off the deep end. Some other investors would say we’re crazy for the amount of rehab we do. We’re big into traditional value-add investing. We love to rehab our properties and make sure that we’re fixing all of the larger capital expenditures. The capital expenditure is your roof, plumbing and furnace. Those are large capital expenses that are going to break on your house at some point. When we go in, we’re fixing all of this up, as well as we’re making the cosmetic condition like the kitchens and bathrooms better than our competition. People are willing to pay more for a higher quality product. It’s not like we’re going crazy by any means. We’re still making our deals work, but we do put a good amount of rehab into them.
This leads me to my next question and it is very similar to what you were answering. What other strategies do you have to help ensure a successful investment for your clients?
This goes back to the time involvement piece. I’m happy to work with my clients. Some of my clients are my best friends. That’s how I found my partner. He was one of my clients. You got to realize that real estate is a team sport. You cannot invest out of state with just trying to be a solopreneur. You don’t necessarily need to make yourself the largest company in the world but you need to have rock stars on your team. The natural progression has to go from buy and hold investing into value-add. The next logical step from buy and hold is going to be a BRRRR. Everybody knows what a BRRRR is. You Buy, Rehab, Rent and Refinance it. It sounds a lot easier on paper than it is to execute.
Why I recommend starting with buy and hold a lot of times is because you need to build those relationships, specifically with the contractors and the hard money lenders. If you’re looking on the internet, especially look at any hard money lenders’ website. They’ll be like, “We’ll do 90/10 loan-to-value and 100% of rehab costs.” What they don’t tell you is they will only give that to you if you have done five deals and you have a proven track record. Most likely, if you’re starting out, you’re going to get access to the worst financing. You’re not going to have access to the best contractors. You can get access to those by doing these buy-and-hold deals, being active in your market and being involved.
Network your butt off like we do. Reach out to the successful operators in your area. Go and provide value. Go to a mastermind. We have a small city but we have a rock star group of real estate investors that has a community that spans nationwide. There are a lot of guys in Scottsdale. Everyone from Columbus flies out to the guys in Scottsdale. They fly out and go to our masterminds in Columbus. Those are some of the best ways to get plugged into the market. Go find the guys that are doing deals, provide some value, sell them a deal and buy a deal from them. That’s how you get started.
Is there a typical time frame when you’re working with investor clients for how long they keep a property? Do you want them to sell it after a certain period of time? Do you want them to keep it long-term to pull out and do a cash-out refinance or buy their next? Can you talk about that?
Yes, I can. There are certain times when it may make sense to sell a property. I might be one of the very few realtors that will tell you not to sell a property. You make money in real estate by holding these assets long-term. There are usually better options. Besides just refinancing out properties one at a time, you can get a portfolio refinanced. You can put debt on multiple properties at once and pull out large sums of money. I recommend going that route rather than selling. Especially if you’re setting these properties up correctly when you’re buying them and you’re buying into them right, you’re fixing all the capital expenditures. You’re not going to have a whole lot of expenses. On a lot of these properties, it doesn’t make sense to sell them. That’s speaking for buy and hold investing.
I know you started your investment company. How do you work with investors there? What was the goal of that investment company?
The goal of the company is the goal of everyone when they first get into real estate. Everyone gets into real estate because they want financial freedom. They probably want to make some money, provide for their families and generations of families. They want to provide for their kids. That’s exactly what our goal is. My partner Chris has been in the commercial world for many years. Now, he’s retired. He’s unemployed because that’s how the bank looks at him. The goal for us is to seriously scale a portfolio of single-families until about 100 units and then try and build a business that is systematized and organized so we can eventually work ourselves out of it.
There are a lot of investors that get very caught up in grinding, trying to hit 1,000 units and endlessly scaling. If you’re getting into real estate for financial freedom and to reclaim some of your life, you need to focus on building a business around the lifestyle that you want. You have to make those two things work together. Otherwise, you’re going to get burnt out and caught up in the failure and rejection of real estate, which there is a ton of. It’s not going to be something that can be sustained and last long-term. Please, build your business around your lifestyle.
In your words, how active or passive is investing over in Columbus with what you’re doing with your clients?Investors get overwhelmed or never take off because they think they have to do everything themselves. Click To Tweet
For my clients that are just doing the buy and holding, it’s passive. We work with a rock star group of property managers and we’re buying. Luckily, in Columbus, we have great price points. That’s probably the number one reason why it’s passive. You can buy into these properties that have already been renovated and still cashflow them. We go through that entire process. We’ll put it with a property manager for them. The only thing that the client needs to focus on is getting funding for the next deal, saving up for a down payment and checking their monthly statement once a month from the property manager to make sure everything is going right.
That’s not to be said that all property managers are equal. We have probably been through about six property management companies. I used to work at one. I at least understand what I’m looking for. You need to find a property manager that is good at communicating. Our property managers have a weekly call with us every single Wednesday where they walk through every single asset that we have with them. They go over what’s happening with it. If there’s nothing happening with it, they’ll at least let us know. There are no surprises. They also communicate with the tenants well. That’s something that doesn’t come cheap. Having that peace of mind and knowing that we have someone on our team that’s part of our businesses, our property managers, looking over that frees our minds up from worrying about that. Also, it frees us up to do better things like find funding for our next deals, network with contractors or manage the projects that we have that are open.
In your market, how do you go about finding deals? Are they mainly on the MLS? Are you finding deals in other ways?
We are getting creative. As far as buy and hold investing goes, you can still find deals on the MLS. You have to be quick. You have to know what you’re looking for. You have to be good at getting offers accepted, which I think we’re good at. Also, it’s about networking with wholesalers. That’s something that we provide. I’m more than happy to share my wholesalers with all of my clients and I frequently do because they bring us some good deals. I’m totally fine with paying a wholesaler with their fee as long as the deal is still a deal. That is all that matters. If they’re taking on that burden of going through acquisitions for us, that’s great. We’ll focus on operating the deal.
Besides that, we’re also starting up little acquisitions in ourselves. We’re starting to wholesale some contracts, as well as just directly reach out to sellers. For newer investors, I wouldn’t get too caught up in it. Focus on the MLS deals. If you’re using conventional financing, you have to go with MLS and good-quality properties. If you have access to hard money and you have experience renovating properties, your next step would probably be wholesaling. Don’t try and go out too far ahead of your experience level and jump right into wholesaling and trying to do big fix-and-flips. There’s a lot of stuff that can always be learned in real estate. You do not have to go 1,000 miles an hour because you’re probably going to end up putting yourself in a position you don’t want to be in and you’re not going to last more than two years.
What would you say are the challenges in your market for investors?
Competition is a big one. There are a lot of local investors as well as out-of-state investors coming into the Midwest markets. It’s not just Columbus. I have clients that frequently invest in Indianapolis, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati and all of the surrounding markets. The reason why the Midwest is a decent place is the price-to-rent ratio. It’s similar across a large band of states that have similar macroeconomic statistics. To be honest, it’s the internet. It has made information so easily accessible for so many that it’s easy and feasible to invest out of state. I would say about 80% of my clients all live in California or Canada. We have built successful teams with them to invest out of state very easily.
It sounds like all your systems are in place and you’re offering a great service to your clients. How has your market been affected, if any, by COVID? What was that like?
We had prices jumped by 30%. Our inventory had an all-time low. We went from six weeks of inventory to a low of thirteen days at its lowest. There was a panic to start with. Nobody knew what was going to happen with values. Everyone was seeing the stock market at least 30% over a couple of days. What that did was it stopped all sellers from listing their homes but we still had this pool of about 8,000 buyers. They were chomping away at their inventory every single week. It’s simple supply and demand. When the demand goes up and the supply goes down, prices increase. That with the addition of they’re just not able to build enough properties.
The properties they are building like a new build anywhere in urban Columbus start at $450,000 to $500,000 now, which here in our previous price points of $150,000 for single-family homes, that’s a world of difference. That is not your first-time homebuyer. That is fairly high priced in our market, especially when compared to our median incomes. Prices have been on the rise. I don’t see them slowing down for any amount of time. Our market in Columbus was underpriced for a very long time. Years ago, we were able to buy houses for $15,000, $20,000 and $25,000 in need of renovations. Now, those same houses in the same boarded-up condition are selling for $60,000 to $70,000. If you extrapolate that out to even more desirable areas for owner-occupants, anything in the suburbs has average days on the market of 3 to 4 days.
That’s fast, quick and multiple offers. I take it.
You got to sell your soul to the devil to get an offer, waiving, inspection periods and remedies. That’s why you get an experienced agent, especially one who has relationships with other agents and they know your ability to execute. That’s where you can get creative with the offer terms. Once you know how the sales process works, you can get very creative with your buyers either bring closing costs coverage or you could dance around the appraisal gap coverage. Whatever it needs to be to get the deal done. A lot of the retail agents don’t think outside the little box that is the purchase contract.
I know you’re working with a lot of investor clients. What’s your ideal investor client type of avatar? What are the backgrounds? What’s the common thing you see with all your clients?
If we’re starting at a high level, the common trait that I see with all my clients is that they take action. That’s different from taking risks. All of my successful clients move quickly, take action and willing to learn. I know we touched on it earlier. Real estate is high-level problem-solving every single day. If you’re the kind of person that can roll with the punches, solve problems as they come up, not get fazed by that and keep your eyes focused on the end goal, you will be immensely successful. The speed at which you’re able to go is going to be so much greater than anyone else as far as what that looks like financially because I’m sure that’s what everyone reading wants to read about.Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Don’t try and take it all on your shoulders. Click To Tweet
You don’t need to be crazy wealthy. An income between $80,000 to $100,000 is good enough to get started. Have at least $40,000 down if you want to buy one property. Your down payment is probably going to be between $25,000 to $30,000. More money always helps. That’s where it comes in our use in real estate as a store of value. Do you need to create equity? If you need to create equity and you are a problem solver, then we’ll start talking about BRRRRs and find some ways for you to recycle your cash a little faster.
What about joint ventures? Do you ever do any of those?
Yes, we love joint ventures. Real estate is a team sport. One of the main reasons why I see investors fail, get overwhelmed or never take off is because they think that they have to do everything themselves. There’s just too much to do yourself. You have to realize that you’re running a business. If you think of any successful company, the CEO isn’t the one going out and dealing with the supply chain. The CEO isn’t also the sales manager. As an investor, especially a new investor starting out depending on your situation, I would almost recommend a joint venture more than trying to go and do it on your own because you can easily go out. You can partner with someone else that doesn’t have the same skillset as you and you can make stuff work.
Specifically, what I am talking about is if you are an out-of-state investor coming from California and you have a couple of hundred thousand dollars in the bank and you don’t know how to safely deploy that because you’ve never bought or run an out-of-state investing company, I would go partner with an operator in the area and say, “I have some cash. I’m willing to learn. I’m willing to go find and analyze deals but I need you to help me operate them.” That’s what we do all the time with our contractors, especially on the investing side. When we have properties to flip, we’re working with a lot of successful contractors that are now starting to invest on their own, which is awesome to see them starting to understand that side of the business.
We’ll bring deals to them. We’ll be like, “We found the deal. We’re going to finance the deal but I want to give you the deal. I want you to operate it well and get it to this condition level where our comps are. I want you to call me a week before it’s done so I could schedule pictures.” They pick up on a skillset that we don’t have. I would recommend that even just having two people to be able to tackle the same problems and support each other. Would you rather have a whole of a little grape or a bigger slice of a gigantic watermelon? Think of it like that. You don’t have to do everything on your own.
What advice do you have for someone wanting to get started out in out-of-state buy-and-hold investing? Anything that jumps out at you.
Take action. It’s as simple as a phone call. You need to go reach out, find similar markets that meet your criteria and start at the top like anything else like, “What’s your investment strategy? Are you looking to create some passive income, you have a couple of hundred thousand dollars sitting away and you want to buy more turnkey properties?” Look at good cashflow markets. Are you in this for the long-term and you’re interested in good cashflow and appreciation? Come to Columbus and talk to me. Don’t try to move too fast. Usually, when I meet with investors for the first time, I don’t show them the MLS or start analyzing a deal until the 3rd or 4th call. We don’t even look at the numbers because you need to build your team out and I need to understand who they are. Your team is what’s going to make or break you.
Good investor agent goes to find someone else who’s investing and they’re going to have the property managers and great local lenders. Not all lenders lend across the entire country. A lot of times, when we have investors come in, they’re like, “I have this lender that’s in California. He has worked on me with other deals.” It’s like, “Can he lend in Ohio?” They were like, “I didn’t think of that.” Don’t be afraid to ask for help. Don’t try and take it all on your shoulders. Get started. It’s never going to be the right time. It’s never going to be perfect. You aren’t ever going to understand everything you need to but you learn along the way.
How does somebody go about investing with you and if they were interested in a JV?
The easiest way is to reach out to me. I’m sure you’ll have a phone number, email address and social media and Instagram. We post as much as we possibly can to social media to show that we’re real, we’re active in the market and hopefully that we know what we’re doing. Reach out. It’s quite simple. I’m sure you could even find me through Dale, your own Instagram, since you are my sponsor agent.
What’s the best way for someone to learn about you and your company? What platform? Should they email you or go on social media? What’s the website?
I would, at this point, say social media. We got done telling a couple of videos. We’re doing a lot more video content between my partner and I to explain not just what we do with our real estate investment company but who I am as an agent, what my background and experience are and what we’re currently working on. That’s something important. Especially even if you don’t go and choose Columbus as a market, anyone you reach out to, this is including contractors for sure, you want to be able to go, see and show that they’re doing deals and they’re active to show that they have experience and they know what they’re talking about.
Vince, I appreciate you being on the show. You offered so much value to the readers. To everyone reading, thanks for checking out the episode of the show. Feel free to reach out to Vince directly for any questions related to the Columbus, Ohio markets. He’s a wealth of knowledge. Until next time, everyone. Live life abundantly.
About Vince Iacobelli
An ambitious real estate professional with considerable experience in value add real estate investment strategies and working with residential clients.
Currently an agent at EXP Realty in Columbus Ohio, with a focus on serving both residential clients and investors in single and multifamily investment opportunities.
Recently, Vince worked at HHPM a Columbus Ohio-based property management company, as an agent, and property manager overseeing 150 private investors, and 650+ units in the Columbus market. During his time at HHPM Vince worked with his clients to help analyze, finance, buy, sell and manage various investments strategies. In addition, he assisted in the growth of HHPM from 250 units to nearly 700 units prior to his departure.
After departing HHPM Vince joined Living Cbus: The Hamrick Home Team at HER Realtors, where he was a part of a three-person team that closed over 75 transactions per year.
Vince has experience in managing extensive value add investment strategies and is adept at working with industry professionals to build competent teams capable of executing and scaling investors’ portfolios. With closing above 30 deals per year on average as a single agent, Vince has extensive market knowledge and experience in both the single and multifamily markets of Columbus Ohio.