The School Of Cash Flow

More than the high-value properties, legal guidelines, and financial advice, one of the main elements of winning in multifamily investing is social work. By being part of the right circle of people and getting proper guidance from trusted experts, you are setting yourself up for a grand win. Joining Dale Corpus is Justin Moy, a partner at Perpetual Wealth Capital. He shares the story of finding success in multifamily investing, mainly by finding the right mentors and surrounding himself with inspirational people. Justin also details how they help individuals build generational wealth through this passive income source.

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Justin Moy On Winning At Multifamily Investing Through Social Work

Real estate is a team sport, so relationships will get you far in this business, which is why I’m constantly networking and open to meeting new people. One of my previous real estate sales coaches told me, “You are one relationship away from your business exploding.” That resonated with me like no other. You never know who you are going to meet next, how you can help them and vice versa. It’s one of those things I love about real estate. It’s all about the relationships and friendships made that could be long-lasting.

My guest was connected to me through a business partner of mine named Elizabeth. He has a similar background to me in that he is from the Bay Area and was a realtor. As you know, I’m still a realtor now. My guest happens to be in real estate but his focus is solely on the investing side of real estate. His niche is multifamily real estate. His name is Justin Moy. He’s a Partner at Perpetual Wealth Capital, which focuses on multifamily passive investments.

Before becoming involved with multifamily investing, Justin was a top broker at the third most competitive residential real estate market in the country over here in the Bay Area, winning numerous awards for production. During this time, Justin specialized in helping investors acquire long-term projects that would provide favorable cashflow and appreciation. Welcome to the show, Justin. How are you?

I’m doing great, Dale. Thank you so much for the introduction. It’s flattering. I’m excited to be here.

I mentioned from your bio that you are from the Bay Area. For my readers that don’t know you, where are you based out now, geographically?

I moved out to Arizona. To give you a little bit of quick background, I didn’t have too much of a conventional path in high school. I hated school and looked for any reason to get out of it. My parents at the time told me, “You’ve got to go to college. We never went to college, and we have certain struggles that we want you to avoid.” I started thinking to myself, “How can I avoid college?” The answer was, “I will go into the Military.” I went to the Military. I was in the Marine Corps for a few years. I’ve got out as soon as I can because if you ever thought that you hated school, you would probably hate the Military more.

I’ve got out of there as I could and came back sitting in San Ramon, where you live. That’s where you and I had met up with some of our associates. I thought to myself, “What can I do to avoid going to college?” I knew I was always good at sales. I thought, “I’m going to be an insurance broker or a real estate broker.” I looked into the two, and real estate excited me more. I did real estate sales for a couple of years in San Ramon.

I’ve got bogged down with the thought of living there my whole life. I wanted to travel a little bit more, so I thought it was a now or never moment. Not so long ago, I decided I would give college another run. I’m going to go, “It’s now or never.” I went to the University of Arizona and have been in Arizona ever since. Now, I live in Scottsdale doing what I love in multifamily real estate.

Out of curiosity, do you miss the Bay Area?

I visited, and I was back there for Thanksgiving. I was sitting in traffic thinking to myself. “I don’t think I do.” It’s got its pros and cons. It’s a different lifestyle. I spend more of my time sitting in traffic than I would like. I don’t think I see myself going back at least long-term but I have family there, so I’m back there semi-frequently.

I know that Elizabeth Lee, who’s one of my real estate business partners where we are real estate brokers and is on the same team. How did you meet her? We are talking about relationships and connections, and I know that she said I should chat with you, and that’s how we are here. How did you even meet her?

Social Work: A successful realtor must always keep the pipeline full. Never stop prospecting and looking for deals.

It was such a long time ago and I was like you like, “You are one relationship away from the next thing.” When you were young and hustling in real estate at the time, I was twenty years old. The Bay Area markets are extraordinarily competitive. There are generations of realtors or family brokers that live and dominate there. I was networking every chance I could.

I don’t think there was a single day that I was home before maybe 8:00 PM or 9:00 PM because I was there or after-hours events that I would go to. One of those probably like Meetup.com, Elizabeth and I happened to link on LinkedIn, and she saw a couple of things that I was posting, and then we’ve got reconnected.

It’s constantly meeting people. It’s the way to go. You never know who you are going to meet next. You transitioned from being a realtor moving over to being more on the investing side. What were the main reasons for doing something like that? I know you love selling and are good at that but what made you do that transition?

I was good at helping investors purchase single-family homes and condos. I would do those by crunching their numbers. Eventually, I would start to see, “They are making good money here if they are able to execute these.” When I would follow up with them, they were usually outperforming what we thought they would be getting and the mixture of seeing what they made being an owner and an investor and also not being transactional as much. In real estate, you are always hustling and chasing that deal.

One thing that stressed me out about the business was I can never be gone from my phone because I always thought to myself, “What if I’m missing the call?” It was grinding on some relationships that I had because I’m a workaholic and allow myself to dive in as much as I can. I thought to myself, “I need something that’s not going to be as transactional where I can take a vacation and feel like I’m not going to miss out on the next million-dollar deal, which would be my significant check.”

It brought me into thinking that I was going to pursue that. I will buy a couple of single-family homes once a year, and in 20 or 30 years, I will retire from doing that. I thought to myself, “That scale honestly sucks. I have to have to spend a long time purchasing properties.” It led me down the rabbit hole, the multifamily, and I haven’t looked back. Multifamily has solved every problem that I have been looking to solve. It has the scale and fits my personality and strategy.

I see a lot of similarities of myself in you. I’m still in real estate but the funny thing is I consider myself more of a real estate entrepreneur than I am a realtor. You don’t get rich in real estate. You get rich by owning real estate. Real estate sales are very social for me. I have a huge referral-based business. It’s one of those things. This show is a great platform to get people chatting and thinking about buying real estate.

This real estate investing in general, since everybody in the Bay Area is so tech-focused and has so much tech stock, some people are now thinking about diversifying into things you or I, are doing because I have been heavily involved in real estate investing via syndications. I’m not so much in multifamily and more in self-storage, mobile home parks and whatnot. It’s great that you are doing what you are doing. I wanted to go back to you getting into multifamily. When you’ve first got into real estate investing, did you go straight to multifamily? What was your first real estate investment?

I went straight to multifamily. Another thing about me was when I was a couple of years in real estate, the market was so on fire. It was so crazy hot. Every guru, broker, and person in the office was telling me, “This is the top. Don’t buy anything now. Wait a year, and it will go down.” I waited a year, and it didn’t go down. I waited another year and still didn’t go down. I was in college and out of that game because I was renting from apartment to apartment.

Over the past few years, it still hasn’t gone down. I did let that fear prevent me from getting into the game sooner. I should have dove in. I let other people get in my ear and tell me, “The crash is coming, so don’t get into anything.” When my life changed, and I was moving around more for college and things like that, it didn’t make sense to buy something for me. My first real estate purchase is a 41-unit property, and now I’m buying my first single-family home, which is also an investment property with my sister and my father back in the Bay Area. It’s in San Leandro. It’s a family friend who owned the property. There is no purchasing besides those two properties as of now for me.

Was your first real estate purchase an investment property versus your own primary residence?

It is. I live in an apartment and I love it. There’s a social thing about it, too, depending on where your personality is fit. Also, moving is on my horizon here. As you know, my girlfriend is finishing up some things here, so we are looking to move either to Kansas City or Boise before we purchase some things. I don’t know many people who go straight into 41-unit. It’s the purchase of the first one, and it has been an exciting journey for me.

Some people might think it’s crazy but it depends on who you hang out with.

That’s so big, too. As you said, always networking, and whoever you surround yourself with will set your expectations. If you surround yourself with people who say, “That’s crazy. You could never do something like that.” You are going to start to believe it like I believed people who told me, “Don’t buy anything now because things are crashing.” My circle is very aggressive and like, “Build your portfolio. Don’t wait to buy real estate. Buy real estate and wait.” Whoever you hang out with is going to set your expectations for what’s extreme and what’s ordinary.

Let’s talk about Perpetual Wealth Capital. Tell me about it. How did you come up with the name Perpetual Wealth Capital?

Perpetual means forever. When you think of wealth, wealth does not just mean rich. Wealth means something in such abundance that it can’t be destroyed. What we like about our properties is creating that long-term wealth and cashflow. We syndicate apartments and a lot of people who syndicate, you are looking at a couple of years as a whole. In my opinion, what they are doing is flipping it because they are buying properties. They are rehabbing them, and then getting out of it in 1 or 2 years.

Their investors aren’t getting paid through cashflow. If you invest $50,000 in 2022, you are going to get a couple of thousand bucks for the next two years but a big payout when we sell the property. We have looked at deals like that but we don’t prefer them. We like deals that we can buy and hold onto. Perpetual means forever. Give that cashflow so that we are not constantly on a wheelhouse of looking for the next deal.

We are constantly growing but we want us and our investors to start getting comfortable with cashflow, and the expansion as being something that’s good for us to do but not necessarily. We are not constantly flipping into apartments and looking for the next deal but we have cashflow coming in. We liked those plays.

A lot of syndications for multifamily, say 5 to 7 years or whatever is the expected timeframe to unwind out of that investment. Is yours have a longer timeline then? Tell me about that.

Social Work: You have to align yourself with great people and ideally in the markets that you’re looking to be in into, and you have to keep at it.

We are flexible on what we look at because we find a good deal, have different strategies, and are going to execute on it. We like a liquidation event between the 5 and maybe the 3 and 7-year mark, depending on what is typically in a refinance to return capital, then hold onto the asset. That’s the first exit that we look at and feel is the safest and best for the lifestyle that we and our investors want to have. Ideally, we would look at a property that does have that value add so that we can push the valuation up over the next 3 to even 6 years. Refinance the money, give it back to the investors, and now we have that perpetual return, cashflow coming in.

In terms of size in multifamily properties, what does your company focus on? Is it a certain number of units? What are you looking for?

We are in a big growth stage now. Going back to what you said, “It depends on who you surround yourself with.” When I first started this, I looked at between 20 and 40 units. That seems “appropriate” for us when we are starting and going to compete with different buyers in those markets. Now, we have closed the 41-unit property out in St. Louis County.

The circle that I closed that property with is thinking much bigger. Now, we are pursuing into the $10 million to $25 million range. Ideally, it’s 100 units or more but we have been looking at deals that are 50 units, some distressed assets below 50 units but mostly 50 units plus a capped out value of $15 million to $25 million purchase price. That’s what we like.

I would love to hear about the deal that you did. Tell me about that. How did you even source that deal?

I took a lot of what I learned from real estate sales. Dale, I will ask you. If somebody wants to make a lot of money as a real estate salesperson, what should they do?

Prospect and put your name out there.

You should prospect like hell. I knew a lot of people in that business that were not smarter than me. Not to mock them but they were not as into the game as I was but they were making a lot more money than me because they would out-prospect me like crazy. In this business in multifamily, most properties are sold with a commercial broker. I essentially treat those brokers as the people that I prospect. I make connections with them through LoopNet. If I see them, I will google, “Multifamily real estate broker in whatever city you are looking at.” Once I get your name, email, and phone number, you are in my CRM and circle forever.

I have regular calls and follow-ups depending on how our conversations go. I stay in front of brokers all the time. I don’t ever let them think to themselves at some point that I’m not active in the area. I’m constantly calling and emailing and sending them texts. I had a big call block for two and a half hours, where I was tearing through and calling all the brokers, reintroducing myself, letting them know I’m coming into the city and if they did have anything I could tour. Staying in front of the brokers is huge.

This deal, we bought it off-market. We were the only buyers that were in on it, which is great for us. In this market, things are absolutely crazy. Things get outbid quickly but it came directly to us. You could say that I was lucky and called the right broker at the right time but the best way to be lucky and be at the right place at the right time is to always be there. I called this broker for the past few months, following up and constantly asking him if he had certain things that fit our criteria. He finally got something that did, brought it to us, and we ended up closing on the deal.

You had said it before but I can’t remember. What city is it again?

This is in St. Louis County. St. Louis has a city, and then outside of the city is more of the county. The county is a little bit more landlord-friendly. It’s in a community called Spanish Lake up there.

I’m from California. I don’t even know where this county is. Is this in Arizona?

St. Louis, Missouri.

Question for you, since it’s even outside your area, how did you find the property manager to even manage everything because it’s not even local to you.

I live in the Phoenix area where if you like what we like, which is cash, and then that perpetual return. I looked out, and we do a lot of our business in Kansas City, St. Louis areas and Oklahoma City. Now, we are looking into Wichita, some growing places in Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma. I found the property manager in almost the same way that I would even find one here. I googled them and called around. Every broker I talked to. I said, “We are looking to make a change for the property manager. Who’s your recommendation? We are looking at properties at this size.” I kept a note on whose name kept coming up.

Once I’ve got that pattern, I called and introduced myself. It’s the same with the brokers. I constantly call the property managers and stay in front of them and ask, “Do you have any owners that are looking to sell? We will keep you on the property. Bring them to us.” I did a lot of research, and the thing with multifamily as well is once you get those bigger properties, you can have some very on-point property managers because the scale was there. It’s so much more comfortable leaving a larger property to be managed remotely by us than a single-family home because the caliber of property managers for multifamily, especially at these sizes, is a lot more locked on.

What kind of metrics are you looking at to determine that a certain area is something viable for a good investment for these multifamily investments?

The top thing we look at is growth. There are two things that you look at. I did an episode on them on my podcast, Building Passive Income & Wealth (Through Real Estate). The two biggest that most people are going to look at is going to be population and job growth, which you are going to go hand-in-hand but sometimes, you get some conflicting reports. If you want to learn on a deeper dive about it, check out the episode on my podcast.

We like to see job growth. The numbers are reported more accurately. It also gives us a better sense of what kind of people are moving there if they are high-income, low-income, there’s a good mix. We would like to see that job growth. We also like to see, “Is it a city that is reputable and has lots of tenant bases?” Kansas City and St. Louis is huge city in MSA. You can get vastly different tenant bases from block to block. We want to make sure that we are in those good areas that you are going to get good quality tenants but there’s growth in those areas, and people are moving there, and not just moving there but people are getting work there.

For this property, when you were doing your due diligence and whatnot, how did you determine that the property itself was a good deal for yourself?

First, we look at the area before we even look at the property. The area of Spanish Lake brought me a huge amount of comfort because our property manager lives in that area. It has about 1,000 units in that area or the neighborhood that’s right next to it. He even grew up there in the neighborhood over called Black Jack. He had even said, “When I grew up there, and I was born, it was rough. Over the past ten years, it has gotten so much better that now, that’s a great place to be.” We knew we wanted to be in that area.

We were looking at, “Where are the largest employers, either the city or the MSA?” This property happens to be within twenty minutes at most of the drive within the top five largest employers in the MSA. It’s also close to public services like parks, libraries, and a firehouse is right on the corner over from it. We liked the location. We knew it was turning around in a big way. We are excited to take the property over and continue managing it. It has a lot of signals that we are going to have an easy time filling it with great quality tenants.

How big of a raise did you do for this?

This was syndication. We bought the property distressed. We bought it, and the purchase price was a little bit over $1 million but there was about a $500,000 CapEx budget for it. We call it $1.5 million. With that, we raised more than we feel that we will need. We raised $600,000 for it because we also wanted to reserve a budget for it. We’ve got an awesome rate for the bridge loan, too, to get the property going. It took us about $500,000 to close but we raised an additional $100,000 above our typical reserve, which we do $100,000 per door. We raised an additional $100,000 as a backup reserve as well.

The Definitive Guide To Building Generational Wealth & Passive Cashflow Through Multifamily Real Estate Investing

Are you already working on any other properties in the pipeline for future syndications?

We are always prospecting. The best and finals are coming up for a couple of properties. We are submitting LOIs like crazy. The market is hot and everybody knows that. Every operator you have talked to is going to tell you, “We are submitting more LOIs to get a transaction now than we were last year.” We are getting aggressive but not too aggressive. We like to stick to our guns with our underwriting. By prospecting out of brokers and property managers are giving us every opportunity we can to continue submitting LOI. The pipeline is full. What does that successful realtor need to do? You’ve got to keep the pipeline full. Never stop prospecting and looking for deals.

It sounds like a lot of the skills that you had being a realtor have translated very well into being over in the syndication, multifamily real estate space and whatnot. Is there anything that surprised you about being in this space that you are in now that you didn’t expect? Are there any challenges that you weren’t expecting? Talk about that.

Commercial real estate has a significantly higher barrier to entry, and I knew that going in. One of the things that’s a huge difference is how you interact with brokers with it. Single-family home brokers, I don’t think there’s a single one anywhere in the country that if I left a voicemail and said, “I’m looking to purchase something. Can you give me a callback?” They are excited to talk with you. They are like, “We’ve got another potential client here.” The commercial is not like that. It’s an extraordinarily high barrier to entry.

It’s that cycle because you need to be established in the market to get reputable brokers, time, and energy but you can’t get established in the market until you have their time and energy to get you deals. You have to align yourself with great people, ideally in the markets that you are looking to be in into and you have to keep at it. It’s much higher barriers to entry to start and also much more team-focused.

You can invest and sell in single-family homes all day by yourself. In commercial, I don’t know of anybody who does it all by themselves. They always have a team, employees or partners, and even brokers. Even brokers have teams, and it’s not like the single-family where, “It’s my listing.” It’s more like, “This is the office listing. I’m the lead broker on it. What can I do for you?” A lot of those differences shocked me that it was different from the single-family space.

I was going to ask you about the team. Who are the crucial players in your team? What kind of roles do they play that help you make everything happen?

I have a mentor who I enjoy working with. He partners with me on deals. He has that guidance. He has been in this business for many years. He has an official mentor role. He’s my coach. I pay him and also bring him onto deals, which is important. It’s awesome to get mentors and get somebody to do for free but when you are starting in this business, nothing is going to match up paying somebody. It almost doesn’t matter what they charge. A lot of people are transparent and charged between $30,000 and $50,000. If you want to get in this business, it’s worth it 100%. Find a way to pay for it. Having that coach or mentor is big and key.

The next is I have a partner who has multifamily development experience and access to tons of investors. I bring on my own investors. I even have my podcast where I bring on a lot of investors. I get a lot of people and investor calls from it. Closing this deal with him on the team immediately brought a scale. His investors love the deal. They said, “How can we do more of these? We do developments now. Developments don’t have cashflow. They have a couple of years until we get a return. How can we supplement our portfolio with in-place cashflow and then continue to build that long-term wealth?”

That gave me fast access to a lot of reputable and reliable capital, so we could scale our properties. In your business, if you are looking to get into multifamily syndication or any syndication, you could syndicate industrial or office space if you would like. The two big roles are you’ve got to think somebody has got to find the deals and underwrite them, and somebody has got to bring cash again. It’s hard to do both.

You and I can know people who do but they don’t have the scale of somebody who has at least those two, and then some supporting roles on those teams as well. If you can have somebody on your team that can find, underwrite deals well, and can raise capital for you or the deals, that’s going to put you in a big position of success.

What’s your personal outlook on the multifamily space over the next few years? How do you feel about it?

There are a lot of people saying, “We are at the top cycles every ten years. This is the mark for it.” Nobody knows what’s going to happen in the future but here’s what I feel. When you invest in long-term cashflow, you are going to be okay. When people have those properties that do have those maybe 3 to 5-year exits and that’s the exit. Your cashflow at that exit point is not favorable for you to keep the property, so you are almost forcing a sale, that’s when you have a little bit more exposure than we would like to have. We like to look at it as, “If we are going to sell this in 5, 7 or 10 years, what’s our cashflow going to be at that point?”

If the market is not where we want it to be, we can hold it. Are your investors going to be upset if we cannot sell the property but they are getting 10%, 11% or 12% cash-on-cash, and then we will sell in the future? No. They are going to understand that. If you invest in cashflow, you are going to be in a lot better peace of mind. I also think of the logics of supply and demand. People say, “Prices cannot afford to keep going up.” The demand will.

People are not stopping to have children. These cities are not stopping to grow. Jobs are continuously moving here, and land is not making any more of it. Think of the supply and demand of where you are buying, and you are going to be in a lot better spot as well. I read something before. It says, “Even in the Great Depression, prices fluctuated at 18% at the most,” which is why we have the new down payment standards that we have, so you are not underwater. Think of how much leverage you are using. If you are going in 20% to 25%, you should be able to weather those storms.

From what we see from the Great Depression, that’s more than you need to not be underwater. I see the demand to continue to go up. Affordable housing is going to be a big thing that governments are going to look for investors to help them solve. Getting into the affordable housing space, voucher space, and mobile home parks should be bigger. There are a couple of reasons why they are not. A lot of them have to do with social viewpoints of them or cities not wanting them there. That’s something that’s on the horizon, too. Housing will not go away, and I take a lot of comfort in that.

I know you are always looking for investors, too. The type of investors you are looking for are only accredited investors, correct?

We don’t restrict it to accredited investors. The reason why a lot of syndicators will do that is so they can advertise the property and bring on more investors. You don’t need to be accredited to work with us. So far, our properties have not been exclusive to that. You technically should be a sophisticated investor. It’s a little bit of a loose term but if you have knowledge of real estate, you have at least some investments anywhere or even in the stock markets. You are just not at least have money that you are putting some work on because you don’t know what else to do with it.

We would love to work with you. You don’t need to be accredited, and I can walk you through every step of it. You can go to our website. It’s TheDefinitiveGuideBook.com. We have a free book, The Definitive Guide To Building Generational Wealth & Passive Cashflow Through Multifamily Real Estate Investing. That has some more information on that as well.

You did mention the mentor that you are working with. Was that the same mentor? Is that how you propelled? Did that transition from being a realtor to getting into the syndication multifamily space? Were there other mentors along the way that helped you do this?

The mentor came after I decided I was going to go both feet into multifamily. I did meet the mentor through a program. I was looking up mentorship programs, and I knew that coaching and consulting were something that I valued and important to me. Once I decided, I put the last book down that I read. I listened to the podcast and I finally said, “I’m going to jump in both feet.” That’s where most of my multifamily education came from before then.

It was podcasts and books like most other people and all the free stuff that I could do. I watched YouTube videos. When I decided it was time to jump in, I looked up a couple of mentorship programs and private coaching programs. I interviewed and talked to a few of the coaches and mentors, and settled on this guy. His name is David and he’s awesome. He has been great ever since.

I have a lot of folks that are reading that are in the Bay Area. Most people here are in tech and heavily invested in tech stock and all that stuff. For folks that are on the fence about investing in real estate that is thinking about doing it, is there any advice that you would give to them about starting in investing journey?

Social Work: If you are nervous about being a newbie investor, which is natural, you got to align yourself with great operators.

If you have the stocks and that’s what you like and are comfortable with, that’s great. There are a lot of things that real estate offers that the stock market didn’t offer me. I end up liquidating my portfolio to put in real estate. If you are nervous about that first time in investment, which is natural, you’ve got to align yourself with great operators. If you are going to do it passively through syndication like us, we are the ones that are doing a lot of that heavy lifting.

You don’t need to have a ton of knowledge about real estate but a great way to get your feet wet. Also, usually for less than it would cost for you to buy a property yourself outright, even a single-family home, especially in the Bay Area. There are lots of ways to get started. Educate yourself a lot until you are comfortable. There are a lot of free resources. I learned a lot from BiggerPockets. I was posting there. Looking back, I was like, “That’s a really simple question,” but somebody answering it for me that confirmed what I thought or believed in made me feel a lot more comfortable.

I liked the saying, “Don’t wait to buy real estate, buy real estate and wait. The market has been climbing. Your portfolio growth as a real estate investor tends to be exponential, not linear.” That’s something that I like as well. If you are nervous and don’t know where to start, head to my website and check out some free eBooks. There are tons of free downloads out there.

Listen to a show like this one where there are a lot of guests who talk about their experience. Pick up some books if you are more of a book person or even watch and subscribe to some YouTube channels. Forget whatever is holding you back and look for an answer as to what is the realistic pros and cons of the situation that you are looking at.

Out of curiosity for myself and to learn more about you too, besides multifamily, are there any other types of real estate asset classes that you also look at or is it pretty much only multifamily?

For now, it’s only multifamily. Eventually, I would like to get into things that we need. Mobile home parks are one of them. I like the saying, “When your competition zigs, you zag.” Don’t lean into where everybody is at. That’s why I don’t invest in Phoenix or Texas because that’s where everybody is. A lot of people bailed on retail and office space because of the pandemic. They saw how resilient multifamily was and continued to outperform projections. They all flooded multifamily.

I’m still in multifamily but if you are willing to zig when others are zagging, there are going to be a lot of opportunities in office space and retail, where they have lost key investors that are looking in those spaces. I don’t think that those industries will die off. They will shrink but they are still going to be there. For now, it’s only multifamily for us. The next closest horizon for me is most likely going to be mobile home parks. It’s the affordability that I think the country needs.

Don’t be afraid to look out there at some office or some retail space. Look for opportunities. As you said before, “Don’t be a real estate agent. Be a real estate entrepreneur. Be an investor. Look for opportunities where you can make money. Don’t get so narrowly focused on one thing that you lose sight of other things.” For now, our portfolio is going to be all multifamily.

Some final questions for you. What are you excited about in your business now?

I’m excited to continue growing and helping people achieve financial freedom. The reason why I’m so passionate about bringing investors onboard and even the reason why it led me to create my podcasts. I truly and honestly feel at the bottom of my heart that if people understood the benefits of passively investing in syndications, I don’t think there would be a single person on the planet that didn’t do it.

To me, it’s getting that message out there. My parents are telling me, “You’ve got to put money here. Get out of that 401(k). It’s not doing you any good.” My real passion is coaching and educating people, and it so happens that I do that through real estate. People need to break that cycle of not being financially free, stuffing their money in a 401(k), hoping that they live old enough to bring the money out, and then hoping that they don’t outlive their money. That’s crazy and a huge thing that we need to break as a society. I’m excited about truly impacting investors’ lives and getting them into financial freedom. Opening their eyes that this is a way better solution than what we have typically been pitched, usually by our parents or past generations.

I love how passionate you are about everything you are talking about, which leads to my next question. What’s your big why of why you are doing all this and hustling so much?

I don’t want to live that same life that I’m helping people avoid. I don’t want to grind in that 9:00 to 5:00 forever, do it for 40 years, and then retire when I’m whatever old age I’m going to be in 40 years. I did the goalpost is always moving. I want to create a life that people should have. Once I have that life, I want to continue educating. I love the podcasting space. I don’t know if I will ever stop. I love meeting people and hearing the reach that I get and educating people.

My big burning why initially was to create that freedom for my parents and get them onboard. Like a lot of our parents, they hate their job. They have been gritting their teeth for years, wanting to retire every year. When it comes to the option for them to retire, they say, “If I stay five more years, I get this package.” I want them to be able to break that. That’s how it started, and then once I realized I could impact the lives of even my friends and their family, it took off from me. I love seeing the change that I had in people’s eyes when I opened their eyes to, “This is a great investment and a great way that could alter your life and bring you that freedom.”

As a side note, congrats on starting your podcast. I started my show this 2021. I liked it. At first, I wasn’t sure how it was going to go but it has been amazing meeting cool people like yourself. This is a new virtual coffee meeting set up.

It’s a great way to network. As you say, “You’ve always got to be networking.” If anybody is reading that’s thinking of starting a podcast, do it. There’s nothing that’s going to go wrong. You might be out of $50 mic if you ended up hating it. It’s not a big cost. People love being on podcasts. Chances are, if there’s a big influencer, there’s a good possibility that they will say yes and come on.

It happened to me. I have a few high-profile guests that are going to get published soon. I was like, “I’m surprised they are coming on.” It’s a great way to meet people and expand your own knowledge as well. A lot of what I know about mobile homes or self-storage, I learned from a few guests that I have had on the show.

I love it because I’m learning things from the guests as well. Selfishly, I get to ask all the questions that I want to ask and I’m learning. You’ve got to realize that all these big names of the folks out there that are established in the space would love to be guests because they are reaching a new audience that they don’t have access to. I know them. It’s a win-win for both sides.

I have heard from one of my mentors. He’s not a real estate mentor but more of a business mentor. He has a couple of podcasts, and I was talking to him about it, “What if I can’t keep up with the content? What if nobody listens?” That’s the biggest fear when you make content, “What if nobody reads my blog? What if nobody listened to this? What if nobody watched my videos?” He goes, “The podcasts that I have don’t impact the business.” I said, “Really?” He goes, “I do them for me.”

Even if nobody reads, what’s the value of sitting down with some of these people who you want to have on the show? What’s the value of you walking away with one idea that they gave you and you are like, “I’ve got to write that down now?” Getting readers is great, and that’s going to build a show. I have gotten quite a few investors from the show, and the readers are good. We are pretty new but I get a couple hundred per episode. Even if that wasn’t the case, the value of having that guest has a tremendous value already. Don’t be afraid to do it. Jump in with both feet like my advice for everything and get that done.

Any big goals that you are working on in 2022, either business or even personal?

My business goals for 2022 are to take on an additional three multifamily transactions of at least 50 units or more. I would be adding 150 units at least to our portfolio. Personally, I’m more serious with my girlfriend now and looking to move in together at the end of 2021. Start something fresh in Kansas City or Boise and start a new life together. That’s the personal selfish thing that we are pursuing here.

I asked this question to all my guests, and you could answer it any way you like. What does success mean to you?

Success to me means you could do what you want with the people that you want. That time freedom. I know we only have a couple of minutes here but I will share a story with you that opened my eyes to this as well. I had a family member who had passed away and it was expected. She’s very old. She was my grandmother. She lived a great life and was ready to go. The whole family knew it was coming. It happened a little bit quicker than we thought. Everybody flew and drove in to see our final goodbyes. I thought to myself, “I have a couple of cousins, where are they?”

Social Work: Don’t be a real estate agent. Be a real estate entrepreneur and investor. Look for opportunities where you can make money. Don’t get so narrowly focused on one thing that will make you lose sight of other things.

One of my cousins came running in and we said hi. We sat down with my grandma for a little bit. After a couple of minutes, she gets up and goes, “My lunch break is over. I’ve got to go. I will see you guys later.” She still had her uniform on from work. I thought to myself, “My goodness.” A couple of hours later, my grandma had passed.

I thought to myself, “It’s crazy that somebody has such control over your time that you only have a 30-minute lunch break to drive here, drive back and spend with somebody who you are going to see for the last time on Earth.” That person makes great money but so what? To me, success means you can do what you want with your time with the people that you want to do it with. If you want to stay there all day and week with the person you love, you can afford to do that. That truly resonates success with me.

What’s your superpower that’s contributed to everything you have accomplished so far in your life?

I have a great ability to speak publicly, personally and privately. I have studied a lot of communication techniques that have accelerated my business. The way you talk and portray confidence will help you make or break business deals or transactions. Get comfortable with speaking and networking. Read some books on speaking. One of my favorites is How To Talk To Anyone by James Downes. That’s a good book that helped me a lot. It’s understanding the psychology of the things that you are saying.

I’m also a big believer that you are always in sales no matter what you are doing. The Way of the Wolf has been an amazing book for that. Those two books will change anywhere that you are in your business. Even if you are in direct sales or not, you are always going to find out that you are selling something where even if it’s selling your spouse where you want to go eat. Building those sales and communication skills is huge. Never stop for those two things.

The last question is, how can somebody get ahold of you?

If you want to get ahold of me, you can send me an email. It’s Justin@PerpetualWealthCapital.com. Download my free book. It’s totally free. I spent a lot of time writing it. It’s at TheDefinitiveGuideBook.com, Definitive Guide To Building Generational Wealth & Passive Cashflow Through Multifamily Real Estate. It’s free information. Read up on it and see if it’s something for you. If you want to get in touch, there’s a Calendly link there as well. Schedule a call with me. I love speaking with people and talking to anybody. I would love to talk to you about real estate. I could do it all day. Reach out to me in any way that’s comfortable for you and we can connect.

That’s all the time that we have. Thank you, Justin, for joining me on this episode. I love your energy. It’s very relatable. I love the fact that we have a similar background, and you are also from the Bay Area. Keep on with that hustle and build up the portfolio. To my readers, thank you for checking out this episode, and remember to leave a review on iTunes as it helps me attract even more great guests like Justin. Until next time, live life abundantly.

Important Links

• Perpetual Wealth Capital
• Meetup.com
• Episode – Previous episode on Building Passive Income & Wealth (Through Real Estate)
• TheDefinitiveGuideBook.com
• BiggerPockets
• How To Talk To Anyone
• Way of the Wolf
• Justin@PerpetualWealthCapital.com
• iTunes – The School of Cash Flow

About Justine Moy

Before becoming involved with multifamily investing, Justin was a top broker at the 3rd most competitive residential real estate market in the country, winning numerous awards for production.

During this time Justin specialized in helping investors acquire long-term projects that would provide favorable cash-flow and appreciation.